A former governor of Abia State and businessman, Orji Uzor Kalu, bares his mind on national issues in this interview with SUNDAY ABORISADE
This is the third year of the All Progressives Congress government in Nigeria. Are you happy with the situation of things?
I am happy because the country is still intact. There is no division in the country. I am also excited that we are doing what is expected of us as the party in government. I agree that Nigeria’s democracy should have developed more than what we have now but certain circumstances made us to be where we are. It is better to improve on it because definitely, this is better than military rule. What we should strive to achieve now is unity and cohesion. That is why we should preach the gospel of unity to our people.
Is that why you led your Peace Advocacy Team to some South-West states recently?
The idea of my peace initiative came up when former President Olusegun Obasanjo started writing his letters and I believe that his action was threatening the unity of Nigeria. I observed that nobody took it upon himself or herself to put the record straight by faulting the arguments put forward by Obasanjo which are capable of causing a great division in the country. Having gone to the South-West, our next plan is to visit the South-East and the South-South geopolitical zones in order to meet with the traditional rulers, leaders of thought and the governors there. I will have private talks with them and let them know the genesis of the problems facing the country. The Orji Uzor Kalu Foundation has made a subtle pledge to Nigerians to preach peace through advocacy in all the regions. We will move to the North-Central region and other parts of the North after our peace initiatives in the southern part of the country. It is a commitment on our part to ensure Nigeria’s unity. I am a businessman who needs peace in Nigeria. Businesses can only thrive in an atmosphere of peace.
But Governor Ayo Fayose warned you to steer clear of Ekiti?
I ignored his threat. I went to Ekiti State, slept there and addressed a rally there.
Is he not your friend again, considering the roles you reportedly played when he was impeached sometime in 2006?
We are still good friends
There were reports that he escaped to Ghana after he was impeached, wrapped up and put in a car boot. Is that what happened?
(Laughs) I ensured that he sat comfortably in a car and was driven straight to my house on Victoria Island the very day he was impeached. He stayed with me there for 90 days, eating my food and taking my drinks. Before his arrival, I had to change the policemen attached to me and brought in new ones. Before the new ones took over, I drove Ayo Fayose into my house with my car around 1am and the new policemen did not know who I came in with. I drove him in through the back gate, entered the building through the backdoor, and led him upstairs. He made himself comfortable because there is even an indoor swimming pool and other facilities. It was after three months that I advised him to make himself available to the EFCC. I told him that he could not continue to live inside the house forever. I actually thought they wanted to kill him; that was why I harboured him in my house for so long. I told him that as long as he did not tell anybody that he was in my house, his life would be secured. I allowed him to make himself available to the EFCC because he was declared wanted. I ensured that all the foods and drinks he was taking while in the EFCC custody were coming from my house to avoid poisoning.
So why did he try to stop you from entering Ekiti?
He was just playing cheap politics. He thought I was coming to Ekiti to campaign for President Muhammadu Buhari. He tried to stop me thinking he was fighting Buhari.
But your task appears to be a difficult one based on the fact that you are trying to fault Obasanjo’s submissions which centred on the glaring non performance of the Buhari’s administration? Are you not trying to sell a bad product to Nigerians?
President Muhammadu Buhari is not a bad product. He meant well for Nigerians. If you know the level of damage done to the economy of this country before he took over: the Central Bank of Nigeria was looted during the former President Jonathan’s administration. They raided the apex bank and took away the Sovereign Wealth Funds and other savings meant for future development of the nation’s infrastructure, health care, education, security and welfare of the citizens. If you know the level of economic decay inherited by the All Progressives Congress, you won’t describe President Buhari as an unsellable product. All the economic indices which were displayed to us by the past governments are fake. As a businessman, I am in a position to know. I am one of the 10 foremost businessmen in Africa; I have my facts. Nigeria’s economy was not doing well before President Buhari took over. As an employer of labour with over 9,000 employees, I know what has happened to Nigeria’s economy. Our problem is not political; we actually have serious economic problems confronting us as a nation.
Are you saying that Nigerians should still trust the nation’s economy in the hands of Buhari for another four good years?
I am not saying that President Buhari is perfect. As a matter of fact, no individual is perfect. He cannot do everything. However as a leader, he is expected to do his best and leave the rest to the person that will take over from him after his tenure. Buhari, in another four years, will be able to perfect the rule of law and ensure that the economy start off on the right foot. If for instance he passes on the baton to an experienced politician like Orji Uzor Kalu in 2023, I will put the economy on the fast lane and the nation would witness rapid economic growth and development. Let me assure Nigerians that Buhari will focus his attention on the nation’s economy in his second tenure. We will experience a progressive economy because I will be involved too as a senior member of the APC. We will not allow Buhari to fail.
Many Nigerians may disagree with you that the only problem facing Nigeria is the economy. What of the herdsmen killings? Is this how it will continue for another four years?
The reason killings are taking place in some states at the moment is because weak governors are in charge of their affairs. I was a governor for eight years and during my time, no herdsman can try such nonsense in my state. The governor is the chief security officer of his state. He should not wait for Buhari to secure his state at all times. He is the President of Nigeria with 36 states and Abuja to look after. The governors, who are shouting that herdsmen are causing havoc in their states, should rise up to their responsibilities. They should deploy security vote for the purpose it is meant to serve instead of diverting it. When I was governor, I faced similar challenges and I tackled them squarely because I was giving out my security votes to the security agencies in the state. If the security personnel are the ones making use of the security votes for their operations, they would be happy and equipped to discharge their duties effectively. Those governors, whose states are being terrorised by herdsmen, should stand up to their responsibilities instead of crying foul. If all the governors stand up to their responsibilities, there will be peace in the country. How can only 30 people be harassing six million people in a state? The killings going on now are a modern day Boko Haram insurgency. I can assure you that Buhari will contain the killings in his second term.
But the President said the killer herdsmen are from Libya and other foreign countries. Don’t you think that this may be difficult for the governors to handle?
I have also said it last year that the killer herdsmen are foreigners from Libya and Mali but a lot of people, including the media, castigated me just because I said what some people did not want to hear. The governors can stop the herdsmen invasion if they utilise their security votes well. I am not a frivolous person. I don’t talk anyhow. For instance, I said (former President) Obasanjo is corrupt, some people are abusing me. The man himself knows that he is corrupt. Otherwise, where did he get the money with which he built mansions and business empires in Abeokuta and Ota? This is someone who claimed that he came to power with just N20,000 in his bank account. He (Obasanjo) told me this during one of our discussions and I documented the conversation in audio and video. He gave the explanation inside my sitting room at Victoria Island.
Is that why you asked President Buhari’s government to prosecute Obasanjo?
Yes. Unless President Buhari goes back to the drawing board and probes somebody like Obasanjo, the country has not really started tackling corruption. I want President Buhari to give (Mr. Ibrahim) Magu a mandate immediately to arrest and file corruption charges against Obasanjo. That is when I will be convinced that we are ready to fight corruption.
Many Nigerians believe that you have a passionate hatred for Obasanjo because his government closed down your businesses?
We have passed that stage. It is true that he closed down Hallmark Bank, Slok Airline, and others but I have moved on. He only deprived the over 5,000 Nigerians, working in the 133 branches of Hallmark Bank, their daily bread. The clampdown on my business also affected the workers who were employed in Slok Airline which had 14 functional aircraft as of that time, flying all over Nigeria and the West African coast. I might be having issues with my banks as a result of his (Obasanjo’s) actions and inactions, but I am okay. I have moved on with my life. I have left him with his conscience if he had any at all. I have forgiven him but I can never forget the trauma, the pains and the heavy burden he had imposed on my life. If I have not forgiven Obasanjo, I would have stopped him at the airport for instance and challenged him to a fight. He is no longer a President and I am no longer a governor; we are now private citizens. But I won’t do that because I have forgiven him. This is a man who plunged the nation into darkness because of his poor handling of the $16bn power projects across the country.
Will you say that Obasanjo is angry with you because you wrote an open letter to him when he was in power and exposed some alleged atrocities being perpetrated in his government?
That letter was one of the reasons Obasanjo is fighting with me. The second reason is the issue of third term agenda. He was not happy with the letter because I sent a copy to former President George Bush and former Prime Minister Tony Blair. That was why he wrote the two former heads of state then and accused me of stealing government money to buy houses in Britain and the US but the government of those countries, after due diligence, replied Obasanjo that their findings did not show that I stole money to buy those houses. I bought the house in London in 1991 when I sold my house in Massachusetts at the rate of $3.8m. In 2003, I bought another one for over $1million and I still had excess of over $2m. I sold that house because the residents, who were living on government welfare arrangement, were giving me too much troubles and I couldn’t cope again. I also bought my house in Washington with the money I realised when I sold the one in Boston. I declared both assets because I wrote the Code of Conduct Bureau then. I paid all the bills incurred by Obasanjo between when he left the prisons and the time he was sworn-in as President in 1999. He was living in my house on Victoria Island throughout the period. I gave N500m loan to the Peoples Democratic Party in 1998 which was shared to the 36 state chapters of the party and I gave Obasanjo a cash gift of N100m which he collected at the First Bank branch in Ota and spent during the election.
So, what roles did you play in the third-term saga?
I was one of the governors who derailed the third-term agenda. That was why Obasanjo sent Nuhu Ribadu to arrest my mother at Aba. They could not do anything to me because I had immunity but they thought I would append my signature to third-term if they arrested my mother. (Former Deputy Senate President,) Ibrahim Mantu, (former Senate President) Adolphus Wabara and former President Bush also played major roles in aborting the evil agenda. Obasanjo thereafter told me that he would ensure that I regret my action for the rest of my life because he was going to crumble (cripple) me completely until I will go on my kneel to beg him.
But we also learnt that you opposed his second term bid too?
Yes. I did that because Obasanjo reneged on a gentleman’s agreement before he was made President in 1999. He agreed to do one term and hand over to (former military President) Ibrahim Babangida. Both Obasanjo and Babangida are still alive, I want any of them to contradict me and I will challenge them to a live debate on a national television. I went to his house in company with Babangida, who told him the decision to make him a civilian president. He objected the proposal initially but he later changed his mind and told Babangida that he would agree to serve only if he would do one term and handover. He wore knickers on that day.
How did you then resolve the issue in 2003?
We asked him to respect his agreement but he refused. We asked Babangida to start his campaign but he refused and when we confronted (former Vice-President) Atiku Abubakar, he also said Obasanjo had reached out to him.
We learnt that he allegedly prostrated for Atiku.
He also prostrated for me
Really?
Yes. When Obasanjo learnt that we wanted to sponsor a governor against him, he came to my residence in Asokoro. He came in the middle of the night. He came straight to my bedroom because he was the commander-in-chief. The security operatives had no right to stop him. He just knocked on my bedroom door and I opened for him. He knelt down and begged me. I gave him my words of assurance and he left. I later went to greet him after he had won and instead of him to appreciate what I did, he threatened me that I will suffer for the rest of my life.
If Obasanjo is actually corrupt, why are there no petitions against him before the EFCC?
There are so many petitions against Obasanjo at the EFCC. Go and ask (Ibrahim) Magu, he will confirm to you. There are petitions ranging from those on the $16bn and other misappropriations (allegedly) perpetrated by him while in office. He (allegedly) gave money to businessmen all over the places to invest on his behalf. Obasanjo is (allegedly) the owners of so many businesses in the country today.
You advocated the implementation of the 2014 confab but you are against restructuring. Is that not confusing?
I don’t believe in restructuring really. I believe that there are 63 items in one column of the constitution and there is the need to move many of them to the other column if we really want to achieve fiscal federalism. The Igbo will not even listen to anybody talking about restructuring now without an Igbo man being president. When an Igbo man has been elected president, then we can now talk about restructuring. The country should maintain the current structure until every section of the country has been president. I usually laugh when I see some of our senior brothers talking about restructuring, because they don’t know what they are saying. What are they going to restructure. I am for fiscal federalism. My definition of restructuring is fiscal federalism.
But fiscal federalism won’t stop nepotism which Nigerians are accusing Buhari of.
Once bitten, twice shy. President Buhari has been Head of State before and he was removed via a coup d’état. The most reasonable thing for him to do now is to put trusted and loyal officers in strategic security positions since there is no law that says they should be picked from each state of the country. (Former President Goodluck) Jonathan did the same thing. Buhari however ensured that he followed the constitution by appointing ministers from each state of the federation.
But Nigerians believe that he was unable to discipline some these people who have been accused of corruption because they are his kinsmen?
I don’t agree with you. All those talks are mere propaganda from people who are no longer allowed to perpetrate corrupt practices. The world powers today still support President Buhari because of his integrity and steadfastness in fighting corruption. The masses are particularly impressed with his government because he is building infrastructure all over the country.
It will soon be 20 years that General Sani Abacha died and we are still recovering part of the money he stole. What is your reaction to this?
Abacha was a good leader. He disagreed with a lot of evils that were perpetrated against Nigerians by the Western world; that was why they hated him. All the money they said Abacha stole were not stolen. Abacha moved that money to foreign private accounts when the Western world wanted to sanction Nigeria. Our people don’t have information of what actually happened.
What efforts are you making to reconcile Nnamdi Kanu’s family with the Federal Government?
I made several efforts in the past to reconcile them with the Federal Government but they didn’t listen to me. If I have the opportunity to see them again, especially the father and the mother, I will ask them to tell their son, Nnamdi, to calm down because none of the groups agitating for the Biafran Republic at the moment can withstand the federal might.
But the IPOB boys are saying that there won’t be elections in Igbo land in 2019.
Those are idle talks. They said the same thing during the Anambra election but it held. We cannot continue to take side talks seriously. Those boys should go and reform themselves. I am investing huge sums in empowering them through the Orji Uzor Kalu Foundation so that they can leave the streets and do something meaningful with their lives.
Nigerians are clamouring for younger generation to take over leadership positions come 2019. What is your view on this?
Leaders come with age, wisdom and experience. The best leaders in the world today are elderly persons. You cannot just bring out a small boy and think he would perform wonders. What does he have to offer?
Has the Abia State University obeyed the court verdict by releasing your certificate which was withdrawn?
I have not asked my lawyers. I don’t have an update on that yet.
