Former Senate President, Ameh Ebute in this interview, talks about the All Progressives Congress, APC, zoning its 2023 presidential ticket to the South-South and why South-East and South-West may not produce a president even when zoned to the South.
Emir Sanusi recently said that Nigeria is living on extra time. Do you agree with that?
That is his personal opinion but you don’t mind such talks. Unless God decides to end Nigeria, we will continue to be part of the world. I don’t think God would take us out of the world. Maybe, they are talking of disunity or something like that. This Nigeria will continue to survive despite our shortcomings. Nigeria will not collapse but we are currently having challenges which I know we will overcome.
Political parties are having internal wrangling among themselves. Some people are not sure of what is happening. Some say Buhari is not ready to go and one is not sure what to believe…
Don’t mind what people are saying or thinking. From the Biafran war, they have continued to talk about disunity but we have been able to survive up till today. So disunity in a country as Nigeria will continue to rear its ugly head. I don’t think it is a serious issue now. The serious issue is to see how we can get the next president. The political parties can nip in the bud the crisis that we have so that we can have a peaceful transition of government next year. And we should also pray that God should be able to give us the president that will take us forward. I don’t want to be pessimistic about the existence of Nigeria. I want to be optimistic.
But the way the politicians carry themselves and the things they do…
It is because of the special nature of politicians, who only bother about themselves and not for the masses. That is why you have extreme greed. And extreme greed brings individualism and lack of care for the masses. So, you see the winners taking it all and the ministers and government appointees patronizing only their families. That is why you see extreme struggle to get into position. That shouldn’t be the way things are done.
APC said the mood of the nation will determine its presidential candidate and have not been able to zone the position…
It’s the same thing with the PDP. You see, the political parties are watching one another. But I want to tell you from the inner circle that the presidency will be zoned to the South in APC. But which South, I don’t know. If you ask me which part of the South, I cannot say exactly where. But I know that since democracy returned, the Western Zone has had it. The South West has had it through Obasanjo who was in office for eight years. And after him, there is Osinbajo who is the Vice President. I think that should be enough. So, when you talk of the South, you are talking of the South-East or the South-South. But I think the plan is to have the South-South that has been there for six years come back to complete that tenure so that the presidency will come back to the North. That is why the APC is planning to zone the presidency to the South-South.
So the South-East is not in reckoning at all?
The South-East, the activities of the Indigenous People of Biafra, IPOB, is another matter to think about. I don’t know why the majority of the leaders of the South East cannot call the IPOB to order. The fear of other parts of the country is that if you have someone from the East as President and he is overwhelmed, he is likely to support the secessionist movement. So they don’t have confidence in an Igbo man as president now, maybe in the next dispensation. The problem is that the activities of the IPOB have held the entire South-East to ransom. They don’t allow anything to work in the South-East.
A the time Obasanjo became President, there was agitation for Oodua Republic. They went to Ibadan and declared the Oodua Republic and sang their anthem. And when Buhari assumed office, Boko Haram was wreaking damage in the North, it didn’t stop him. And when Jonathan emerged, there was this Niger-Delta militancy. Why is it that when it comes to the South-East, they are saying IPOB?
The modus operandi of the IPOB members is completely different. There is sit-at-home order on Mondays, the no activity order and the confrontation with the armed forces. It is the same with Boko Haram and other insurgents but when we discussed among ourselves, the fear of them is the problem.
Buhari was once appointed by Boko Haram as a negotiator and nobody used it against him..
I am not aware of it. When? Before he became president? I am not aware that he was appointed as a negotiator between Boko Haram and the nation. The IPOB is different because I have always spoken to my Igbo friends and I ask, ‘why do you allow these boys to continue?’ The issue of Oodua has died down, Boko Haram, though an armed conflict will be defeated eventually, just like any other insurrection. The IPOB are very adamant. It depends on the country.
Now, the presidency is open to all but you see the number of Igbo that have shown interest. You have Okorocha, tell me how he can become president? There is Orji Uzor Kalu that has just been freed by the Supreme Court on technical grounds. You have Umahi, the present governor of Ebonyi State. That one I don’t know about his records. But look at Okorocha and Uzor Kalu. Yes, there are others. Pius Anyim. Pius Anyim has a problem too. We want clean people.
But Tinubu and APC had an agreement I’m 2015, why is APC not keeping the agreement?
Yes, not all members of APC are aware of it. That agreement is not a good one. If people from the South-West and the North-West come into agreement, nobody from other parts will be president again. I don’t think such an agreement will be in the interest of the country. That should lead to another political confrontation. So, if there is such agreement, not everyone is aware. And if there is such, it cannot hold as two parts of the geo-political regions cannot hold the country to perpetual ransom.
Who then is APC routing for?
They want Jonathan to come and complete his four years and allow the presidency to come back to the North. That’s the secret agenda people have. The way he handed peacefully to Buhari, he has become the doyen in Africa. He didn’t want to struggle, and his tenure was peaceful.
Whose tenure was peaceful?
Well, I am aware Boko Haram was still there. But these kidnapping and banditry and others were not as pronounced then. That’s why his tenure is being described as peaceful. I think it was relatively peaceful.
Does that mean he is actually being considered?
Well, they are pleading with him to consider coming back and completing his tenure
Jonathan may not accept. See the debt profile. It is running into trillions. Obasanjo cleared the debt. Now it is running to what we don’t know…
You mean the external debt of the present administration is running into trillions? I agree with you and people are complaining. Everyone has its own modalities. I am not in support that our external debt should run into trillions as anyone that will inherit it will suffer. And to make matters worse, the government is still borrowing.
If Jonathan accepts, he will bear the brunt of all these
God will decide. Anybody coming into office will suffer and leave again to the other person coming in. And maybe the person coming in will have some magic wand pleading with the creditors to make some forgiveness of the loans. Obasanjo did it. That’s why he has a clean slate.
But Nigeria is still borrowing
I understand another request has been forwarded to the National Assembly to approve a borrowing. And I wonder why the National Assembly, which is the representative of the people, will continue to consider such. It surprises me that they can’t tell the president the real situation, occasionally. It depends on the integrity of the National Assembly to stop the country from taking more loans.
Nigerians are frowning at the construction of a rail line to Niger Republic
The president has his reasons.
Some of these people troubling Nigeria are from there
If we have a new leadership, they will stop because they will know the dangers of infiltration. Yes, because the president has a soft spot for them, which is why they are having a field day of infiltrating and causing havoc. I believe the new leadership will not allow the infiltration of such people into the country.
What is the place of the Minister of Transportation in the presidential race? He was recently turbaned in Daura, Katsina. Is he the anointed son of the president?
Well, you will agree with me that he was the Director of Campaign of the president. He could be a personal friend of the president. But I don’t think turbaning has anything. And he has not declared his interest to contest for the presidency. That turbaning will not give him any special privilege. It doesn’t also mean that anybody the president has blessed will be president. Automatically, he has to be accepted by other members of the party and other Nigerians.
That turbaning is pregnant with meanings
Well, the meaning will come out at the appropriate time. Like our people will say, whatever makes noise in the bush will definitely come out?
But the president has a hand in whoever succeeds him. What if the president picks Amaechi?
If the president goes for him, it will go a long way especially as it relates to the South-East. But you can’t even define where he comes from. I think that they should be able to satisfy the South-East if Amaechi wins the ticket. But the problem with that is that the party is looking at consensus. And once they said this is our consensus, it will be difficult for other candidates to win.
Your zone the North-Central is not in reckoning and it is hit by insecurity. Why?
That’s how it has been. Even from during colonial rule because we are from the minority, and at the receiving end. The people who are enjoying it are from the majority. That is why anytime you talk about Nigeria, you don’t reckon with the Middle-Belt because we are a minority, because we can be pushed aside. And we are poor, and denied perpetually the resources of this country. If you come to the Middle-Belt, you will think it is a different part of this country.
If you come to the South-East, South-West, North-East and North-West, the difference is clear. The North-Central is intentionally abandoned and that’s by the way. Yahaya Bello that is making noise now will not go anywhere. He is a youth, and the youths are the majority. But his credentials, how much has he done for his state? Rather, he is making noise in the press.
But in those days when the military held sway, the North central tasted power
Yes. We had a lot of military men in the country. But after the military government came to an end in 1999, the soldiers from our area have retired and we are at the receiving end.
You keep mixing up South-East and South-South when it comes to the presidency. They pick people from South-South and tag them Southeasters
Nobody said those being considered are from the South-East. If it is Amaechi, it is not clear if he is from the South-South or the South-East. His name doesn’t matter. I can bear any name. It depends on the local government that one comes from. That’s what determines.
But I think if APC relegates Tinubu, it will be a great injustice because of agreement
How? Can you answer that question that it will be a great injustice? His zone has produced a president for eight years, vice president for eight years. What is the injustice being done to him now?
He was influential to Buhari emerging in 2015?
Are you saying his vote alone made Buhari the president? That is interesting. One person’s vote can’t make the president. The agreement you talked about, was it of the entire nation? People believed at that time that Buhari should be able to bring change, instill discipline, recover stolen money and with the manifesto they have, the fight against corruption will be intensified. But, I don’t know if the administration is tired of fighting against corruption for now because the fight is dying. He is not talking about it anymore as he used to. He came as a credible president. He made efforts to sensitize the society through fighting against corruption. So, they thought when he comes as civilian president, he will do the same thing. But, the president in uniform is not the same as ruling under democracy. There was so much fear about him initially but not anymore.
So talking about Tinubu who influenced a lot of voters and the agreement…
The agreement they had was not in the interest of the country. I told you that two zones alone will not continue among themselves to rule Nigeria. I don’t think that type of agreement should be obeyed.
VANGUARD
